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Rene and Edward Chee
Omega 3 dosages

Dear Rene and Edward,
I am from Sydney. My situation is, I had surgery to resect the T1 spinous process due to likely metastasis from primary lungs (synchronized bilateral NSCLC). It looks like a oligometastatic from my previous primary lung cancer, even though no cancer was detected elsewhere in the body via PET/MRI/CAT. I am waiting for the results of the molecular tissue analysis due hopefully next week plus the circulating tumor DNA blood test that is scheduled in 2 weeks that will be sent to Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Centre.
I have started the Omega-3 regime of 30 mL per day of Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides-fish, which comprise of the following:-
Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides-fish (gram) 27.6
Equiv. Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) (gram) 12
Equiv. Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) (gram) 3.036
DHA+EPA (gram) 15.036
When I compared with 'Patient DH' dose, which is:-
15 gram of Omega-3
11.25 grams of DHA
3.75 grams of EPA.
DHA+EPA: 15 grams
Looks like my regime is pretty close to 'Patient DH". For me to adopt your regime of 24 g of EPA & 24 g DHA (total: 48 g of Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides), I think I should double the current to 60 mL per day of Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides-fish, which will bring it to:-
Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides-fish (gram) 55.2
Equiv. Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) (gram) 24
Equiv. Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) (gram) 6.072
DHA+EPA (gram) 30.072.
I noted your DHA:EPA ratio is 1:1, whilst 'Patient DH" is 3:1 & mine is 3.95:1.
Would you kindly comment on the DHA:EPA ratio and my proposal to increase to 55.2 grams of Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides-fish (gram).
Thank you so much for your help.
Raymond

Rene and Edward Chee
1) We do not recommend taking

1) We do not recommend taking high doses of omega 3 when you have any procedure (biopsy, surgery) coming up, or if you are on any blood thinners. Please be diligent in checking for contraindications with any other medications or supplements that you are taking.

2) We do not recommend high doses of omega 3 during immunotherapy:
http://curingcancerbook.com/can-fish-oil-induce-chemoresistance

3) We would like to clarify the amount of EPA + DHA that Rene took.
Quoted from our book: “ramping up to 24 grams of omega-3s daily -- the equivalent of 48 fish oil capsules (each containing 500 mg of DHA and EPA).”

Rene took 24 grams of omega 3 daily (NOT 48g omega 3 daily), with the ratio of DHA to EPA that Patient DH took. We merely used the illustration of 48 fish oil capsules just to illustrate the sheer amount of omega 3 I had taken, and not as the absolute amount of EPA and DHA. We’re sorry for the confusion.

For specifics of how Rene attained 24g of omega 3 daily, see:
http://curingcancerbook.com/three-questions-fish-oil

4) Importance of decreasing omega 6. This is quite important, as if your diet is high in omega 6, even high doses of omega 3 may not be effective. Chapter 15 addresses this.

Ray
Omega 3 doses

Thank you Rene and Edward for your feedback.
1) I had my surgery on Dec 21, 2016- so is ok to recommence my Omega 3 dose gradually.
With 24 grams of omega-3s daily that Rene took, that comprised of 18 grams of DHA & 6 grams of EPA.
For me to reach Rene's dose, I need to increase from 30 mL per day (current) to about 50 mL per day of Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides-fish, which comprise of:-
Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides-fish: 46 g
DHA: 20 g
EPA: 5.06 g
DHA+EPA: 25.06 g
What is the rationale behind the 24 grams of omega-3s daily (maximum) as oppose to patient DH lower dosage?.
I suppose I should not take any chances and use 50 mL (46 g per day) per day of Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides-fish to give me the maximum benefit since the side effects are virtually none?

2) Did you take any other vitamins & supplements along with the 24 grams of omega 3 daily?

3) Are there any vitamins & supplements that one consume that will affect the efficacy of omega 3?

4) According to the below publication, adding Vitamin C & E along with omega-3 PUFA has better anti-tumour outcome than omega-3 PUFA alone. What are your thoughts?.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11221959

5) I am unsure if I should continue or discontinue with the below mentioned supplements?.
a) 2 capsules Thorne Research Methyl-Guard per day https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/methyl-guard-reg
b) 1 capsule Seeking Health B-Minus per day https://www.seekinghealth.com/b-minus-100-capsules
c) 1 capsule Nature's Sunshine Tumeric Curcuminoids 500 mg, 3 times per day (total 1,500 mg/1.5g) https://www.mrvitamins.com.au/news/turmeric-curcuminoids-500-natures-sun...
d) 2 capsule Ostelin Vitamin D (Total: 2 x 1000 IU)
e) TCM herbs: Cordyceps Sinensis, Gynostemma Makino, Ganoderma, Oldenlandia
Note: a & b are to maintain my homocysteine to around 8.5 µmol/L as I am Heterozygote MTHFR C677T - I am unsure if this matters anymore?.

Your feedback would be greatly valued & appreciated.

Ray
Omega 3 doses

Hi Rene and Edward,
I have combined 2 types of Omega 3 liquid fish oil to give me the following:-
Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides - fish 45.08g
Equiv. Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) 6.074g
Equiv. Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) 18.7416g
Ratio 3.085544946

This is the same as Patient DH ratio of 3, whilst the DHA is 18.74 g & EPA is 6.07 g, with total Omega-3 being 45.08 g. I think this is the way to go. Kindly let me know your feedback. Thank you.

Rene and Edward Chee
There is no fixed formula for

There is no fixed formula for the amount of omega 3 (EPA and DHA) to take.
It depends on:
1) the dosage that you can take on a regular basis with no side effect (bruising, indigestion, etc)
2) the amount of omega 6 that you take in your diet to ensure a low omega 6 to omega 3 ratio

Please also stop taking the high dose omega 3 *two weeks* before your routine scans or decision point for upcoming treatment. This is to minimize bleeding problems in case you have surgery or procedures.

Ray
Omega 3 doses

Dear Rene and Edward,
1) Did Rene take any other vitamins & supplements along with the 24 grams of omega 3 daily?
2) Are there any vitamins & supplements that one consume that will affect the efficacy of omega 3 dose?
3) According to the below publication, adding Vitamin C & E along with omega-3 PUFA has better anti-tumour outcome than omega-3 PUFA alone. What are your thoughts?.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11221959

Rene and Edward Chee
I took multivitamins, Vit E

I took multivitamins, Vit E and selenium at various times while I was on 24g omega 3. Not as consistently as Patient DH (please refer to the Pardini paper for the supplements that Patient DH took)

We mention a study of combining fish oil and Vitamin E in Chapter 15, section "Quenching the fire with fish oil" addresses , along with a paper reference.

Ray
Omega 3 doses

I have been offered Alimta and Carboplatin chemotherapy for 4 cycles over 12 weeks (1 cycle in 3 weeks) plus Volumetric modulated arc radiotherapy (VMAT) for the resected T1 spinous process, expected to commence in 1 week. Should I stop omega 3 doses (45g/d) now before the commencement of chemotherapy & radiotherapy?.
What about during chemotherapy & radiotherapy treatment - should I not take omega 3 doses (45g/d)?.
What about completion of the chemotherapy & radiotherapy treatment - can I continue omega 3 doses (45g/d)?

Rene and Edward Chee
Stopping high dose fish oil during treatments

The high dose fish oil should be stopped 1-2 weeks before any other treatments, and during treatments. You should let your doctor know you were on high dose of fish oil, but have stopped it.

I usually stop the high dose fish oil 2 weeks before scans, as that is usually a time when treatment decisions are made.

I resume fish oil when there is no bleeding risk from the treatments/ procedures I had, and I also ramp up the dosage (start with lower amounts and gradually increase it).

nicktran
Hi Raymond,

Hi Raymond,

I also base in Sydney. May i know what brand of fish oil that you use?. Regarding to the Vitamin E, I think one of the fish oil brands that Rene took has Vitamin E in it. http://www.carlsonlabs.com/p-21-med-omega-fish-oil.aspx.
Also as mentioned by Rene and Edward here, you need to be mindful of your diet of Omega 6 intake. The reason for that is explained in their book, higher intake of omega 6 will cancel the effect of omega 3 so I think it's essential to watch out for the daily diet ratio of omega 3 and omega 6. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ray
Hi Nick,

Hi Nick,
Here are the details:-
http://ethicalnutrients.com.au/Products/product?groupkey=FOLK - 45 mL/day
http://ethicalnutrients.com.au/Products/Product?groupkey=O3FOL - 4 mL/day
Concentrated Omega-3 triglycerides - fish 45.08g
Equiv. Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) 6.074g
Equiv. Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) 18.7416g
Ratio 3.085544946
I think the vitamin E added (low amount) is for 'preservative' purpose, not for therapeutic use?.
Yes, you are right - as Rene said, lower the Omega 6 consumption as much as possible. Since we are local, I can have a chat with you on the phone, if you like?

nicktran
Hi Raymond,

Hi Raymond,

I have not started the omega 3 regime for my mother yet as she's currently on chemotherapy with stage 4 NSCL. As info provided by Rene and Edward, Omega 3 is not recommended during chemotherapy. So, for now, I only reduce her intake of omega 6 but not overly do it as it's everything we eat and some are essential in our diet to maintain weight and nutrition during the therapy.

Ray
Omega 3 doses

Hi Nick,
Which hospital/Oncologist is your mother being treated?.

nicktran
Hi Raymond,

Hi Raymond,

My mum's oncologist is Dr Lim hong liang at Mount Elizabeth in Singapore. He told me if I move to Singapore, He suggested to see Dr Michael boyer @ http://www.mylifehouse.org.au/.

Ray
Detox during/after Chemo

Dear Rene & Edward,

I will be doing my 2nd round (out of 4 rounds @ 3 weekly cycle) chemo: pemetrexed and carboplatin (PemCarbo) next week and expected to finish around end of April.

During Rene's chemo journey, did Rene do any detox regime in between chemo cycles (if so, what detox did she do?) or does she need to wait until the completion of the chemo treatment?.

Would you kindly let me know what detox therapies do you recommend at the completion of chemo treatment (whole body hyperthermia, High dose Vit. C I.V. infusion, Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy HBOT etc.)?. Is my understand correct that hyperthermia has the added benefit of triggering an immune response?.

Did Rene take any supplements during the chemo cycles to minimise the potential harm to health cells (chemo brain etc) and yet not reducing the efficacy of the chemo treatment?.

How long do I need to wait (days/weeks?) after my last round of chemo (4th round) before I start the detox regime?.

What did Rene do during the chemo cycles in preventing Chemotherapy-Induced Peripheral Neuropathy?. I am experiencing tingling sensation at the fingers and toes, so I am researching therapies I can do to prevent/minimise CIPN effect. Some of my friends who went through chemo (different drugs) had permanent CIPN effects 2/3 years after chemo.

Thank you

Rene and Edward Chee
We chose not to detox during

We chose not to detox during chemo to avoid interfering with the cell damage that the chemo was doing to the cancer cells (and normal cells as a side effect). But I did take a powdered fruit + vegetable drink called "Nanogreens" during chemo to support my body. (I avoided raw fruits and vegetables during chemo due to my low white counts, so this powdered drink substituted for raw fruits and vegetables) I also did take Ubiquinol (a form of Coenzyme Q10) to protect my heart, as I had the chemo doxorubicin, which damages the heart.

After chemo ended, I did do some high dose vitamin C infusions, but we do not know if it had any effect, as I did not do it long enough. I started taking fresh vegetable juices after my white blood counts were at a safe level.

I had neuropathy (difficulty balancing, falling) after chemo ended. I took high doses of Vitamin B complex to heal my nerves.

I don't remember specific dosages or when exactly I took these supplements. I hope you do well on your chemo regimen.

Ray
Ketogenic during chemo

Dear Rene & Edward,
I doing quite well on my 2nd round of chemo (3 days ago).
From the book, “Tripping Over the Truth: The Return of the Metabolic Theory of Cancer Illuminates a new and Hopeful Path to a Cure”, by Travis Christofferson, a ketogenic diet weakens cancer cells, and recent research has shown that when on that diet, chemo therapy works a lot better, as the diet weakens the cancer cells, making it much easier for the chemo to eliminate the cancer cells. What are your thoughts on that?. I remembered Rene was not on ketogenic diet during chemo.
Thanks

Rene and Edward Chee
We did not explore doing the

We did not explore doing the ketogenic diet along with chemo. Our thoughts on the ketogenic diet with respect to the immune system is in Chapter 15, section "How very low carbohydrate diets can deplete MDSCs".

Ray
Privacy

When I did a Goggle search under my full name, it identifies this particular Forum, with all my questions listed to the public eye. I thought this is a Close section and only the Forum users as approved by Rene & Edward are able to get access and see this. I am uncomfortable in leaving all this expose to the public eye. To protect my own privacy, I wish to replace my full name with just my first name, such as Ray - would you please make this change?. Thank you

Rene and Edward Chee
This forum requires sign-in

This forum requires sign-in to post, but not to read the posts.

We have changed your username to Ray, which appears on all your previous posts and should appear the next time you sign in to post.

Ray
Circulating Tumor Count (CTC)

Did Rene do any Circulating Tumor Count blood test prior to, during and after high dose omega 3 regime?. If so, what were the results like and what is the name of the pathology center?.

Did Rene do any L.S.M. (lymphocyte surface markers) blood test to determine Total B Cells, Total T Cells, Total NK Cells prior to, during and after high dose omega 3 regime?. If so, what were the results like?.

My understanding is when the treatment regime (high dose omega 3 or whatever it might be) is effective in killing the cancer cells, it will ramp up the total NK Cells to ≥ 100 × 10E6/L hence reducing the CTC to <5 CTCs/7.5 ml of blood (normal range).

Thank you

Rene and Edward Chee
Rene's cancer has no test for

Rene's cancer has no test for circulating tumor cells, as far as we know, and we did not have means to test for various immune cells to see the effect of omega 3 on it.

Do you have a reference for the correlation between high NK cell count and lowered circulating tumor count?

Ray
correlation between high NK cell count and lowered ctc

I do not have a reference for the correlation between high NK cell count and lowered circulating tumor count. The integrative doctor I speak with as well as the internet information seemed to lean towards these figures.

Dadoona
Fish Oil / Neuromins

Hi Edward and Rene
Can i just get some clarification please. Is it okay to just achieve required amount of omega 3 from fish oil alone or bettee to add neuromins ? Is this what you did? I was thinking may be easier to just take the fish oil instead of adding 20 tabs daily unless of course neuromins comes in liquid form. Again many thanks.

Rene and Edward Chee
Details on omega 3
Dadoona
Thankyou very much! I'll get

Thankyou very much! I'll get my partner to take the neuromins along with the fish oil.

Dadoona
Dosage

Hi i hope you can give me some guidance please.
My family member who was diagnosed with Synovial sarcoma in March and since had treatment of chaemo,radio,surgery and then more chaemo finished treatment in August, has just had her first post treatment chest scan and all was clear. I'm unsure about amount of dosage to give best chance of future mets not developing so i just a few questions -

For past month shes been on Carlsons Med Omega - 10mls twice daily equalling EPA 1.180mg and DHA 1.180mg..totalling 9.040 (equal parts EPA & DHA). We want to now start on the Neuromins 200mg to get balance similar to what you and patient DH did but I'm not sure how to calculate the amount of tablets to take to get the correct ratio??

Also if you were in her position at her stage of recently finishing treatment with no mets on first lot of scans but of course at high risk of developing in future how many mls of Med Omega / Neuromin 200mg tablets would you be taking if it was you?

Again many thanks for your opinion and advice.

Rene and Edward Chee
omega 3/6 information

Dear Dadonna,

That is really encouraging that your family member's scans are clean! We're glad that she's started on the fish oil.

We have written up the omega 3/6 regimen in great detail in these links.

We have answered many of your questions there. After reading these 2 links, let us know if you have any further questions.

1) Omega 3 supplementation: http://www.curingcancerbook.com/diet/high-omega-3-supplementation
2) Omega 6 diet: http://www.curingcancerbook.com/diet/low-omega-6-diet

We hope your family member continues to be NED!

Dadoona
Thankyou and sorry for being

Thankyou and sorry for being a pest. I suppose I'm just being extra cautious because i suppose im not confident that I'm calculating the right amount to give. I read the links again and have decided to give 10 tablets - 200mg neuromins daily along with 20mls of medomega.

I've calculated this to total
- medomega 9,040mg ( EPA and DHA)
- Neuromins 2,000mg (DHA)
-Total 9,040mg EPA and 11,040mg DHA
Is this ratio same as per patient DH?
Have i calculated this correctly?
For her current situation (no mets but high risk) would you think this would be adequate amount to take?

Thanks again !

Rene and Edward Chee
There is no problem with

There is no problem with asking questions, I'm glad to help.

My thoughts on the amount of omega 3:

​1) The important thing is sustainability and the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 (omega 3 needs to be higher than omega 6).

Every person's ability to take omega 3 supplements and adjust their diet is different, as well as how they feel on the high omega 3, so do what is sustainable for you. **There is no fixed formula, apart from keeping the omega 3 higher than the omega 6.**

It's better to go for a lower amount of omega 3 than what I did and do it consistently, than to do a very high dose of omega 3 just for a short while and give up on the regimen.

I was able to take about 24 g total of omega 3 a day and keep my omega 6 to about 10g daily for 3 years.

Patient DH had regression of all his tumors after 10 years on 17g omega 3 supplementation and 10g of dietary omega 6.

2) Ratio of EPA to DHA

Example of my daily omega 3 supplementation:

after lunch - 4 teaspoons (20mL) of Medomega liquid fish oil + 10 pills of DHA Neuromins (200mg DHA per pill)

after dinner - 4 teaspoons (20mL) of Medomega liquid fish oil + 10 pills of DHA Neuromins (200mg DHA per pill)

So, if you want the same ratio of EPA to DHA that I (and patient DH) took, and you're only taking 20mL Medomega daily, then adding 10 pills of Neuromins (200mg DHA per pill) would achieve the same ratio of EPA to DHA.

Ray
Omega-3 Dosage

Hi Edward and Rene,

Would you please check that the below ratio (~ 3) is what Rene and patient DH used during her 24 g total of omega 3 a day?.

Equiv. Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) 6.074 g
Equiv. Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) 18.7416 g
Total DHA + EPA 24.8156 g
Ratio 3.085544946

Thank you

Rene and Edward Chee
ratio of DHA to EPA

For the ratio of DHA to EPA that I took, please see updated calculations under "Source of omega 3 supplementation:"
http://www.curingcancerbook.com/diet/high-omega-3-supplementation

Ray
ratio of DHA to EPA

In the Example, since you took 20 pillls of DHA Neuromins per day, shouldn't Total daily DHA = (8 teaspoons x 1.18g DHA) + (20 pills x 0.2g DHA) = 9.44g + 4g = 13.44g ?
Ratio of DHA to EPA = 13.44/ 9.44 = 1.42?

Vs

Total daily DHA = (8 teaspoons x 1.18g DHA) + (10 pills x 0.2g DHA) = 9.44g + 2g = 11.44g
Ratio of DHA to EPA = 11.44/ 9.44 = 1.21

Rene and Edward Chee
Thanks for bringing that to

Thanks for bringing that to our attention. The corrected calculations are posted here: http://www.curingcancerbook.com/diet/high-omega-3-supplementation

emhartley1
Sarcoma

Hello,
I'm so grateful that you have shared your experience with us through your book. This might seem unorthodox but I have been reading and researching in order to help my dog who has a high grade sarcoma. Chapter 15 inspired me to have him on high dosage of Omega 3 and low omega-6. I know you are not a vet but if we pretend that my dog is human I would really appreciate your help. He did get an immunotherapy vaccine one week ago. It was not until today that I logged on to your forum and red that you do not recommend high dosages of Omega 3 while on immunotherapy. It doesn't seem that many people or vets know much about immunotherapy for dogs so I've been doing my own research and my own reading and making my own decisions. So now I am very upset and feel I could have just ruined my chance to help my dog. I will quit the high dosage of Omega 3 today but just wondering if you have any feedback. Could you explain why Omega 3 should not be used with immunotherapy? Thank you so much.

Rene and Edward Chee
Thread moved: Dog sarcoma/ immunotherapy/ omega 3

We've answered your question in a new thread, as we think it would be of interest to others who are also pursuing immunotherapy for their dogs. We can continue our conversation there:
http://www.curingcancerbook.com/dog-sarcoma-immunotherapy-omega-3

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