Question:
emhartley1
Sarcoma
Hello,
I'm so grateful that you have shared your experience with us through your book. This might seem unorthodox but I have been reading and researching in order to help my dog who has a high grade sarcoma. Chapter 15 inspired me to have him on high dosage of Omega 3 and low omega-6. I know you are not a vet but if we pretend that my dog is human I would really appreciate your help. He did get an immunotherapy vaccine one week ago. It was not until today that I logged on to your forum and red that you do not recommend high dosages of Omega 3 while on immunotherapy. It doesn't seem that many people or vets know much about immunotherapy for dogs so I've been doing my own research and my own reading and making my own decisions. So now I am very upset and feel I could have just ruined my chance to help my dog. I will quit the high dosage of Omega 3 today but just wondering if you have any feedback. Could you explain why Omega 3 should not be used with immunotherapy? Thank you so much.
Answer:
The reason we do not recommend omega 3 with immunotherapy: http://curingcancerbook.com/can-fish-oil-induce-chemoresistance
That said, we would not worry too much about the omega 3 negating the immunotherapy, since you've already taken action to stop the high omega 3. Also, our recommendation of not taking omega 3 during immunotherapy is based on our theoretical understanding and being over cautious. The immune response is very complex and we don't have actual experience that omega 3 negates immunotherapy.
We're curious what immunotherapy vaccine did your dog receive?
We hope your dog does very well on immunotherapy.
Thank you so much for relieving my concern. You are amazing. Toto, beloved my lab mix, had his tumor removed and mailed to a the MediVet Biologics lab in KY. They made a vaccine from his tumor. The hope is the vaccine will wake up his immunie system to recognize the cancer as something bad and start killing it. Here is the website: http://medivetbiologics.com/home/pet-owners/bio-solutions/petacp/ Please pray that it works. His sarcoma is huge. Thank you so much for answering so quickly!
Hello and thank you again. I was hoping to upload some pictures. Is there a way to do that? Thank you so much.
There doesn't seem to be a way to upload pictures with the current forum setup.
My dog's sarcoma tumor is getting so big. I am wondering if you have any other suggestions that could help? Thank you so much.
Does your dog have an osteosarcoma?
This immunotherapy seems to have good results for dog osteosarcoma (these dogs had the primary tumor surgically removed, then had cisplatin chemo, before receiving this immunotherapy): http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/aratana-receives-conditional-approval-c...
It targets the HER2 protein that is normally found in osteosarcoma. The way the vaccine is delivered (via bacteria that express HER2) seems to stimulate the immune response strongly against the tumor.
Take note of the survival statistics of dogs treated with the immunotherapy vs. the control.
Good morning. Toto has a high grade undifferentiated sarcoma. He was diagnosed at first with fibrosarcoma, but it was undifferentiated after the last biopsy on tumor tissue. MediVet told me yesterday that the 1sy vaccine that he had a week ago is a primer vaccine. Do you have information on primer vaccines? Thank you so much.
Unfortunately my dog's sarcoma is undifferentiated. Im so glad there's something for osteosarcoma though. Thank you again.
Good evening, I am wondering if you have had any experience with neoplacene injections on sarcoma? Does it interfere with immunotherapy vaccines? How painful is it? Im considering to help my dog make it till hus 2nd immunotherapy vaccine. Thank you so much.
Usually vaccines are given several times to maximize the immune response (eg - the NY-ESO-1 vaccine I got, Chapter 6). Perhaps the primer vaccine refers to the first vaccination.
We have not heard about neoplacene injections.
In general, it's best not to stimulate the immune system with too many different things at the same time. Also, during vaccination I would try to rest more.
This may seem out from the immunotherapy subject but have you tried treating the pet with cannabis oil , so many success stories specially if you have less time , it will relieve his pain and then you may have time to pursue other things , i know so many people who have healed the pets cancer though this may not be the route you want to take .
emhartley1
red blood cells
Thank you so much for your comment. I am trying to get his red blood cell count up some, because his rbc count is too low for surgery to debulk his tumor. I am trying PolyMVA and coq10...and I am waiting on Canine Red Cell Supplement to come in the mail to help him out. My dog is very low on energy and his tumor is large in his mouth, but he is still able to eat and he still has personality. My vet says it is getting close to time to let him go, but we haven't given him the 3rd immunotherapy shot yet and I am not sure I agree. I am wondering if my dog just needs more time to rest to let the white blood cells do what they are supposed to do. His white blood cell count is very very high, which indicates to me that he IS fighting the cancer. I thought that maybe if I give him Omega 3 that his immune system would calm down some, but you suggest not giving him omega 3 because bleeding is an issue, so I wills stop the Omega 3. With his rbc count being so low, how do you feel about giving him his 3rd immunotherapy shot early? The makers of the vaccine said that my dog can have the vaccine early, but I am worried that if we give it to him early that the red blood cell count would fall even lower than it is causing us to lose him. HIs rbc count was 15 last week. Do you have any other recommendations to help get his rbc count up? Thank you so much!
emhartley1
Diagnostic Bloodwork
Good morning,
I have copied and pasted Toto's lab results. Do you mind please looking at them for me? I am wondering if you think the vaccine is working and if Toto is experiencing tumor flare or the vaccine is failing. He had his first vaccine June 6 and July 6th. He has one more that is supposed to be August 6th, but I am considering getting it sooner if it is safe to give him. I am working on trying to get his rbc count up with PolyMVA, liver, coq10, and Canine Red Cell Supplement.I am pretty desperate at the moment. I would appreciate any and all advice and help. Thank you so much.
TOTO HARTLEY
PET OWNER: ELLEN HARTLEY
SPECIES: Canine
BREED: RETRIEVER
GENDER: Male
AGE: 7 Years
PATIENT ID: 3007
Big Lick Veterinary Services
7777 Bent Mountain Rd Rte 221 S
Roanoke, VA 24018
540-776-0700
ACCOUNT #:
ATTENDING VET: Jonathan Amos, DVM
LAB ID:
ORDER ID: 2597
DATE OF RECEIPT: 7/18/18
DATE OF RESULT: 7/18/18
IDEXX Services: LaserCyte Hematology Analyzer, Catalyst One Chemistry Analyzer
Hematocrit
May '18 Jul '18
H
L
WBC
May '18 Jul '18
H
L
Creatinine
May '18 Jul '18
H
L
BUN
May '18 Jul '18
H
L
ALT
May '18 Jul '18
H
L
ALP
May '18 Jul '18
H
L
Hematology
7/18/18 8:02 AM 5/24/18
TEST RESULT REFERENCE VALUE
RBC 3.67 5.5 - 8.5 M/µL L 4.8
Hematocrit 15.7 37.0 - 55.0 % L 32.5
Hemoglobin 5.1 12.0 - 18.0 g/dL L 11.3
MCV 42.8 60.0 - 77.0 fL L 68
MCH 14.0 18.5 - 30.0 pg L 23.5
MCHC 32.6 30.0 - 37.5 g/dL 34.8
RDW 21.0 14.7 - 17.9 % H
% Reticulocyte 20.2 % 2.5
Reticulocytes 742.1 10 - 110 K/µL H 120
Generated by VetConnect® PLUS July 19, 2018 02:58 PM Page 1 of 3
TOTO HARTLEY PET OWNER: ELLEN HARTLEY DATE OF RESULT: 7/18/18 LAB ID:
Hematology (continued)
TEST RESULT REFERENCE VALUE
WBC 17.07 5.5 - 16.9 K/µL H 14.4
% Neutrophils 72.9 % 66.2
% Lymphocytes * 4.3 % 18.4
% Monocytes * 15.3 % 9.9
% Eosinophils 7.4 % 5.4
% Basophils 0.1 % 0.1
Neutrophils 12.44 2 - 12 K/µL H 9.533
Lymphocytes * 0.74 0.5 - 4.9 K/µL 2.65
Monocytes * 2.61 0.3 - 2 K/µL H 1.426
Eosinophils 1.27 0.1 - 1.49 K/µL 0.778
Basophils 0.02 0 - 0.1 K/µL 0.014
Platelets 723 175 - 500 K/µL H 638
PDW 21.4 %
MPV 12.5 fL
Plateletcrit 0.90 %
RBC Run
Download
DOUBLET
RETICS
QUALIBEADS
RBC
RBC_FRAG
PLT
WBC Run
Download
PLT_AGG
LYM
URBC
EOS
BASO
QUALIBEADS
MONO
NEU
WBC Frags
WBC Abnormal Distribution (WD)
Generated by VetConnect® PLUS July 19, 2018 02:58 PM Page 2 of 3
TOTO HARTLEY PET OWNER: ELLEN HARTLEY DATE OF RESULT: 7/18/18 LAB ID:
Chemistry
7/18/18 8:02 AM 5/24/18
TEST RESULT REFERENCE VALUE
Glucose 96 74 - 143 mg/dL 91
Creatinine 0.8 0.5 - 1.8 mg/dL 0.7
BUN 6 7 - 27 mg/dL L 22
BUN: Creatinine
Ratio
8 31.4
Sodium 149 144 - 160 mmol/L
Potassium 4.0 3.5 - 5.8 mmol/L
Na: K Ratio 37
Chloride 115 109 - 122 mmol/L
Total Protein 6.5 5.2 - 8.2 g/dL 5.6
Albumin 2.2 2.3 - 4.0 g/dL L 2.0
Globulin 4.3 2.5 - 4.5 g/dL 3.6
Albumin:
Globulin Ratio
0.5 0.6
ALT 14 10 - 125 U/L 18
ALP 62 23 - 212 U/L 80
Osmolality 292 mmol/kg
Generated by VetConnect® PLUS July 19, 2018 02:58 PM Page 3
OUR ANSWER:
In our experience with sarcoma and immunotherapy, there are no blood tests to show whether the immunotherapy is effective or not. A definitive decrease in size of the tumor by scans is the only way we could tell if immunotherapy was working.
The blood tests you posted give a general sense of the functioning of the body. A vet will be able to interpret them for you.
Low red blood count - Be cautious about *medications*, such as erythropoetin, that increase RBC counts, as some can cause cancer growth. We knew of a sarcoma patient who was given erythropoetin to treat her low RBC, and as a result, her sarcoma grew uncontrollably. CoQ10 helps with bone marrow function. We are not familiar with the other RBC supplements you listed.
The decisions are difficult and not black + white. Sometimes the side effects of treatments can be even more detrimental than the side effect of the cancer. Since your dog has bleeding and low RBC issues on top of tumor growth, it’s best to have the vet monitor and advise on the best way to keep your dog’s health stable. Wishing you much strength in caring for Toto.